Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories

Vanilla 1.1.8 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome Guest!
Want to take part in these discussions? If you have an account, sign in now.
If you don't have an account, apply for one now.

China Adoption General: [Sticky] China's Shrinking Adoption Program - 2006 stats

Bottom of Page

1 to 25 of 25

  1.  
    • CommentAuthorMichael
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2007 edited
     

    The stats for 2006 are now available, and they're not looking good. Here's some stats for the U.S.:

    U.S. adoptions from China
    200420052006
    7,0447,9066,520

    And for Canada:

    Canadian adoptions from China
    200420052006
    1,001973608


    What this means is that China adopted out about 20% fewer children to Canada and the U.S. in 2006 than it did in 2005. The slowdown isn't just due to increased demand, it's also due to decreased supply. China not only has not increased the number of children referred to meet the demand, they've actually reduced it.

    As I've said elsewhere, I believe this is due to Chinese internal politics. An analogous situation in the U.S.A. is immigration. The delay to receive permission to immigrate to the U.S. from some countries is as long as 22 years. This is simply due to a quota on the number of immigrations from those countries. This delay could be eliminated at any time by simply lifting the quota - it would take only a few months to process the 22 year backlog. However, because immigration is a sensitive issue in the U.S., there is currently no prospect of that happening. China's situation is much the same. Adoption is a sensitive issue. China does not want to be perceived as a baby exporter, and all of the articles that have been written about adoption from China are not helping the situation. Apparently they are dealing with this perception by reducing their quotas for international adoption. This has nothing to do with the number of children who need homes in China, nothing to do with how fast the CCAA can process dossiers, and everything to do with political considerations.

    If the quota reductions continue - and the numbers so far in 2007 are not promising - and the number of dossiers submitted to China continues at the same high level, wait times will go extremely high. I cannot stress this enough: if you have not already submitted your dossier to China, please choose a different route to adopt. You will thank me later, when you have a child in only a year or two vs. a five-year wait or longer for China. If you have only recently submitted your dossier, I think you should also consider switching. Domestic, private, or international adoption from another country are all likely to be much faster than continuing with China.
  2.  
    Holy Cow -- Someone on the Rumor Queen site actually nailed the truth about China's Adoption program. The post is pretty accurate. I'm stunned to see it in print. We had to worm our way to a certain elected official to get the same story. (Take a look under the posting: And now it is September) Thank goodness --

    I don't know if your copyright rules allow me cut and paste the post, but here are the links: http://chinaadopttalk.com/2007/09/01/and-now-it-is-september/#comment-41494
    http://chinaadopttalk.com/2007/09/01/and-now-it-is-september/#comment-41566
    • CommentAuthorMichael
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2007
     
    It can be dangerous sometimes to believe what some random person on an internet forum says, unless there's an accumulation of evidence which confirms the statement. All I have to go on is China's actions, which do show that they're reducing the number of children referred but don't show any evidence currently of eliminating the program entirely. I think that writer is largely accurate but don't take away from it "China is eliminating their adoption program" but rather the softer, fuzzier statement that I've made, which is that China has decided to trim the program.

    My guess is that they won't eliminate the program entirely, just like the U.S. doesn't eliminate immigration programs from particular countries, so that if you do put in your papers and wait sufficiently long, you will eventually receive a referral. It's just that you might have to wait 22 years.
    • CommentAuthorally
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2008
     
    Please read the attached letter I have sent to everyone and everywhere possible. It got published in the Toledo Blade so far and hope to get in many more places. We have pulled out of our China Adoption as we were originally told 18 months and it looks now like we would not get our referral till 2010. (our LID date is Sept 2006)
    Thank God we are so blessed to have our adopted son who is 2.5, I could not imagine having to go through all this long wait and anticipation in hopes of becoming first time parents. Something most be done to stop these agencies from accepting new applications and sending dossier packages to China. Or at the very least they should update their websites, info packages, etc explaining the referral time could take up anywhere from 3-5 yrs. Here is my letter:
    Dear Sir or Madam:

    I am writing this letter to inform you of an unfolding story that, in my opinion, would be of significant interest to your audience. The issue is in regards to international adoption, mainly China. Currently, there are thousands of hopeful adoptive parents in the United States that are getting scammed out of not only significant amounts of money, but also their dream of becoming parents.

    If you look online at any adoption agency specializing in China, they post a "referral" time frame (the time that you are matched with a child in China) of anywhere from 12-15 months at most. The truth is the actual referral time is currently at 24 months and they expect it to keep lengthening to at least 3 years if not more. So what is happening is hopeful adoptive parents are giving their money, starting the long, tedious paperwork, hopeful that in a year or little over to get their baby. Only to be told month after month that it is longer and longer.

    The problem is due mainly to shifting supply and demand patterns for adoptable Chinese children. Since 2004, the number of international applications for adoption registered in China has skyrocketed, while the number of children has decreased significantly. There has been an increased demand to adopt these babies domestically by Chinese couples, and there has also been a significant decrease in the number of children abandoned.

    The fraudulent aspect of this story involves the fact that adoption agencies are concealing these facts from prospective applicants in the interest of continuing to collect significant up-front adoption fees. People continue to sign up and pay thousands of dollars up-front thinking that they will be able to complete an adoption in about a year. These agencies continue to "take orders" for babies under terms that they no longer can live up to. Meanwhile, prospective adoptive parents are told to just "keep waiting," and "there is nothing we can do." Are there no obligations for these adoption agencies? Why are prospective adoptive parents left holding the bag? These adoption agencies are not being honest about what they are offering, and in fact are profiting from concealing the facts about Chinese adoptions. This situation is scandalous in my opinion, because not one of these prospective adoptive couples will get any money back.

    We are very sad to say we have pulled our dossier package out of China because we can not afford to "keep waiting" indefinitely. We have a beautiful, two year old adopted son who we would have to put in daycare full time for me to go back to work to afford the next year or two of waiting. We felt it was not fair to him since we went through so much to get him and want the best for him. We wanted more children but unfortunately adoption is just too much of a hard, costly, time consuming, and dishonest process. It is too bad because there are so many babies that need a good home.











    If you do some research you will find that this ongoing scandal involving ever-increasing referral times for adopting Chinese children is affecting thousands of prospective adoptive parents in the US. We and others were, in effect, duped into believing (and paying into) the idea that an international adoption would be completed within a reasonable time frame. We have no other recourse but to attempt to shed light on this ongoing consumer fraud. I hope you agree that such a heartbreaking scandal is a story that is worth sharing with the world.

    Thank you for your time.

    Sincerely,
    • CommentAuthorjaclyn
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2008
     
    Michael, first thank you so much for this amazing site, why is the State Department allowing agencies to continue to accept applications from clients? They are still stacking up dossiers dated '08 and they have just yesterday finished processing '05. This makes no sense to me.
    • CommentAuthorStephanie
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2008
     
    I don't think the State Department wants to get involved with the business of adoption agencies. However, you have every right to be angry, and to agitate for change in any way you can. I think the important thing is to get the message out to prospective clients of these agencies, before they sign up. Pass out flyers with the real story at your agency's next information session, contact the media, the BBB, whatever you can think of.
  7.  
    We were approved in Jan 07 and are using USAA Los Angeles for our China Adoption. At the time we were told groups left every 6 weeks (non preferred), which put us at Nov 08 to travel to China. We called USAA in June 07 and spoke Tracy Moo, she informed us that we should call back in April 08 to "check in"

    Now I just called and spoke to Yasmine at USAA and they say it will be 24-36 total wait time, which everyone is saying:however; those numbers they are quoting are what the last group to go to China waited. I was finally able to speak with Norman (director of USAA LA ) and after 45min begging for a real true wait time for our family, he admitted that we will have at least another 3 year wait, but here is the best part, after he said another 3 year wait, and I quote "China does not want me to tell you that" It sounds like we are dealing with Puppets of the Chinese government. I was enraged to hear this, they have been leading us astray for over a year, and as for groups leaving every 6 weeks, only 4 groups left in 07 and only 4 groups are expected to travel in 08 (non-preferred groups)

    I erge everyone waiting to call their adoption agency and get an honest assesment of their wait time. It make take some persistance but get the truth, because it isn't a 24-36 month wait from my experience.
    • CommentAuthormumarlene
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2008
     
    This is my time posting...so glad I found you. Have been on other "China" sites....getting sick of my posts being "deleted".....freedom of speach for only a few that agree..
    • CommentAuthorlan
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2008
     
    This is the worst site ever. To say that people submitting dossiers will not receive a child for another 7-8 years is crazy. Admittedly, I haven;t read all the facts behind your calculator. But that just seems insane.
    • CommentAuthorStephanie
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2008
     
    Ian, please provide a substantive critique of what is contained on this website and we'd be happy to respond to it. You're certainly right that the situation with China adoptions is crazy right now.
    • CommentAuthorMichael
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2008
     
    No, this isn't the worst site ever. Timecube.com is the worst site ever. I doubt this site is even in the top 100 worst sites.

    As I point out in my original post at the top, the delay to immigrate from some countries to the USA is as long as 22 years. That's crazy. It's insane. It's also true. There are something like 200,000 families on the waiting lists for low-income housing in New York City, which leads to a waiting period of 8 years or more. Crazy. Also true. You've got a situation where:

    a) the commodity is desirable
    b) the length of the wait list is not apparent to new people (due to China's opacity and lying by adoption agencies)

    Why wouldn't the line be really, really long?
    • CommentAuthorTrey
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2008
     
    I'm not even sure what to say about these "predictions". I'll have to lean toward the opinion of LAN and say this is the worst site ever. I don't frequent crack pot China adoption sites, but was a little bored and did some google searching. I am outraged at this and other sites that use predictions and try to pass them off as fact.

    I'm not sure what your agenda is,but please be more responsible in your actions. Please state facts rather than your opinion or "prediction". I guess you don't state facts because you have none to support your claims.

    For example you say "that many adoption agencies continue to describe the waiting period to adopt from China as six months, one year, or slightly more than a year" Why not list these "many" agencies by name in an effort to inform prospective adoptive parents. Instead you use rash generalizations that paint a picture that the adoption agencies are deceiving their clients across the board.

    To all reading this site: These are OPINIONS only. If you do not trust your adoption agency to give you the real story your need to call FTIA. FTIA was our agency for our first child and for our second which is in progress. FTIA has been completely honest with us regarding wait times. They clearly state factual data and keep us informed with clear and accurate data.

    I strongly recommend that all adoptive parents avoid this and other non-factual sites.
    • CommentAuthorjaclyn
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2008
     
    Wow, I'm astounded by the last few comments. I'm a waiting parent and I love this site. What I think is irresponsible is my agency telling me the wait time is 6 months when I turned in my application and 9 months by the time I submitted my completed paperwork. Well, 27 months later and several thousand dollars more than anticipated we are still waiting for our referral. It seems like it may be another year if we are lucky, 2 or more if there are any more delays. I like sites that tell people the real deal.

    What is not factual data is an agency stating the current wait time is xx months. What someone who is receiving a referral now waited is of no use to people who are submitting dossiers today. It seems like this site is more on target. The CCAA is currently processing dossiers for people who submitted paperwork in Jan of '06. They are still accepting applications today , May of '08 and telling people the current wait time is 28 months because that is what the people who submitted 2.5 years ago waited. That is very misleading and irresponsible. But if you don't like this site then leave, and keep thinking your referral is coming soon. You will be very disappointed. I've been 2-3 months away from a referral now for over 2 years. Each month they just keep moving the finish line further out. A sick little game to protect their own interests.
  14.  
    Blakes3greatdanes comments are very interesting. We are also with USAA with a log in date in March 2006. I just learned two weeks ago from another person who was in China with USAA during the week of our LID that their group heard while in China that they would be the last group traveling "on schedule." This sounds to me like USAA knew perfectly well that they knew that things were going to slow down. Worst of all, the wait has been " just another year" for almost 2 years now, and the culture of secrecy surrounding the adoption process means we never get any answers as to when or why. Personally I feel that if USAA and other agencies were more forthcoming with the information they have and up front about the actual wait times, then we wouldn't need to be guessing about the wait at a site like this. Agencies need to be honest and forthcoming with the information they have about the wait.
    • CommentAuthorkampfiii
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2008
     
    Trey--

    Ok, ask FTIA what the wait time is for me--LID March 20, 2007 and please ask them to provide the factual documentation to support their claim. I'm serious about this. I'm pretty much desperate to hear better news than I have been getting on this and the RQ site, but I want it to be REAL better news, not just pie-eyed optimism. My agency refuses to make ANY predictions at all.
    • CommentAuthorcknight
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2008
     
    Hi,

    I have a LID of March 22. 2006

    We too have been so disappointed with the wait and by the time we realized that it would likely be more than two years and realistically closer to three it was too late to switch countries. By the time we did that combined with the extra money it would be a wash.

    We were originally told 9 months which over time our agency kept telling us the time was increasing but did not reccomend changing countries - wish they would have.

    My agency is being honest about the wait time and I got a phone call several months ago from them and it was a teary but honest conversation. I did not want to believe it but have come to terms with it and we have decided to tough it out.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the wait is at a minimum of 3 years and will likely extend up to 5 years then stabilize.

    The >5 year predicition is too far out and who knows what will happen in the next two years after the olympics and the bottle neck has cleared. I also strongly believe that this is a way for China to help children who have special needs find families. If you have not seen the ratio of SN to NSN it has reveresed from what it was 3 years ago. Now it is 6 SN to 2 NSN children ( this is a rough estimate but very close to being accurate.)

    Prayerfully parents who want their babies before a three year wait will seek other options. Not because I want to discourage adoption from China or that there is anything crooked going on---- it is just the way things are. Waiting three years vs one or even two is significant and makes a difference in planning your family when you are over 40 years old.


    Char
  17.  
    It is disgraceful the way the agencies lead us on....like everyone we were told 6-9 months from LID. It has now been 2.5 years and yes with Feb. 28/06 LID date we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnell but no less without anger frustration, sinformation and in my opinion false truths from our agency. We are not informed as to what is going on and noone has any answers. This is the course for us with no doubt we are in this 110% but the truth up front would have been nice.
    • CommentAuthorMelinda
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2008
     
    Slow Boat to China
    We just got LID in January of this year and were told 17-22 months the whole time. We had no idea that everyone had been waiting this long and would have to continue to wait. It really is sad that they are being so deceitful. They SHOULD tell the truth and let people make informed decisions that are best for their families.
    • CommentAuthorjaclyn
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2008
     
    Melinda,

    At your point I would put in a complaint. By the time you came along there was no denying the backlog and the wait times. We were told 6 months at application and 9 months at lid and now we are 29 months into it and we have 1.5 years left if we are lucky. The stress on our family has been difficult and I estimate the cost to be about $10,000 more than what we were told. That is completely inexcusable. Had I known how long we were going to wait I would have never started the process, then again agencies know this which is why they lie. I'm sorry I ever got involved with adopting from China.

    The more time, money and emotional investment you make the more difficult it is to leave the program. I would explore new options now. Good luck!
    • CommentAuthormpdion
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2008
     
    The other problem is the fees. The money being spent on updating fingerprints, homestudies and i-600a's is ridiculous.
    • CommentAuthorMarmac
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2009
     
    Not sure why the U.S. government allows the organizations to continue taking applications, at least not without full disclosure. Based on last year's match, it appears that China processed a week of LID dates each month, thus in my case, I'm over 52 weeks away from the lid dates matched on 12/30/08, thus unless there's a change in the process, 52 weeks divided by 12 months is over 4 years. Thus my entire wait is approximately 6 years. I thought these sites were too negative until I started my own review, as the newsletters I receive shows a 34 month match time.

    While we were caught in the flood of applications due to the upcoming changes in China adoption, and would not have pursued had we known, for the organizations to continue this farce and accept applications and money under this scenario is unconscionable.

    If anyone has different information on why my estimate is flawed I would appreciate feedback.
    • CommentAuthorgigi
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2009
     
    Hello,

    My wife and I have been waiting for 4 years with paper work . Our adoption agency has been nothing but honest with us, yes it gets harder and harder to wait.
    We are not getting any younger. Our lid is 3/14/06 and will keep everyone here up todate. Good luck to everyone.

    Mike
    • CommentAuthormikeducks
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2009
     
    Hey guys 3/14/06 the day has finally come. Its been along wait but today we got the good news. Hope all is well with everyone and wish all the best. Just wanted to tell everyone that 3/14/06 was called today 5/26/09.
    • CommentAuthorStephanie
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2009
     
    CONGRATULATIONS mikeducks. That's wonderful news. Thanks for checking in. All the best to you and your (newly expanded) family!
    • CommentAuthorziggychk
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2010
     
    I called USAA several time over the past few years, and they have always told me up front that the wait time is 3 or more years. I in fact called a couple of months ago and they said is was 4 years now. I was discouraged to think that the child I would end up adopting probably isn't even born yet. What about all the orphans waiting? It's tragic. Also just as sad is that Vietnam suspended their program due to "irregularities" ie. some orphans weren't actually orphans.

    I also think that the supply is shrinking due to changing attitudes in chinese society re: girls. Now that it is apparent that the one child policy has shifted the demographics to more males in the population vs females, having a girl is no longer as undesirable as these girls will have the opportunity to marry well. (I'm chinese, so I know what I'm talking about.)

1 to 25 of 25

  1.